Discussion:
[arch-mirrors] [loli.forsale] Arch Linux Mirror Question
Alucard
2017-07-25 00:00:53 UTC
Permalink
Hi,
I have received complaints about the domain name (loli.forsale) used by
your mirror. Apparently not everybody shares your humour and some people
find the domain to be offensive. Consequently this reflects badly on our
image.
Please switch the mirror to an alternative domain.
I have removed listings of the domain in question. I will add your mirror
again once it uses an acceptable domain name.
Thanks for your understanding,
Florian
Dear Florian Pritz,
Thank you for bringing to my attention the plight of the young
maiden by the username of lemma to remove the domain from the official
public list of mirrors Arch Linux maintains as to not offend her friends,
who I assume contribute a lot for the Arch Linux project. I am sure a lot of
time was invested during the investigation for formal complaints, and a lot
of work needed to be done to ensure the professional image of Arch in the
F.L.O.S.S. community could be maintained.
The last thing we want is to offend anyone, let alone longtime user
who's read our mailing list and IRC logs be scared of what a server or
distro is named for, instead of what the code instructs a machine to do. So
I respect the decision to inform me before any action was taken to remedy
the situation in a prompt manner. Because of this respect, I have a question
I would like answered if you could be so kind to ponder for me:

What does it take to remove all forms of free speech, before it doesn't
matter to anyone at all?




Please, do ponder that. Take your time. Don't worry about me, and the ISP
I'm building in Portugal to maintain Free Software projects, and users with
the same kind of principle. Heed no attention to the time I dedicated to not
only host the servers at the ISP, but the expenses on my behalf to maintain
them even against some of the most demanding of jobs, like working for the
National Center for Missing & Exploited Children. Please don't worry about
_me_, and the valuable time it took me find a representative to formally
reply on my behalf as professionally as possible (I have autism, my response
would have been incoherent if not for the professional help). Worry about
the users that will be eventually be banned because their thoughts offended
someone they do not know. For them alone will judge how a distro is seen.

My only hope, if possible, would be if lemma could contact me instead, and
asked why the domain exists in the first place, instead of demand that it be
removed from a list of alternative mirrors she could have gotten the same
software from. Plenty of other mirrors could be _offensive_ to anyone else,
but mines had to be the one to offend someone the most.

So with that hope in mind, I ask one favor, even if my domain should get
barred from arch forever:


Could you keep a list of alternative domains not deemed safe for work, but
still mirrors for Arch?



Imagine if others were to host Arch, let's say on an OpenNic domain, or an
onion address, would those get deemed Not Safe Work too?
Maybe I'll register CIAloves2.divideandconqu.er to make it more palatable.

Have a pleasurable understanding,
Alucard
Midov
2017-07-25 06:11:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alucard
Dear Florian Pritz,
Thank you for bringing to my attention the plight of the young
maiden by the username of lemma to remove the domain from the
official
public list of mirrors Arch Linux maintains as to not offend her friends,
who I assume contribute a lot for the Arch Linux project. I am sure a lot of
time was invested during the investigation for formal complaints, and a lot
of work needed to be done to ensure the professional image of Arch in the
F.L.O.S.S. community could be maintained.
The last thing we want is to offend anyone, let alone
longtime user
who's read our mailing list and IRC logs be scared of what a server or
distro is named for, instead of what the code instructs a machine to do. So
I respect the decision to inform me before any action was taken to remedy
the situation in a prompt manner. Because of this respect, I have a question
What does it take to remove all forms of free speech, before it doesn't
matter to anyone at all?
Please, do ponder that. Take your time. Don't worry about me, and the ISP
I'm building in Portugal to maintain Free Software projects, and users with
the same kind of principle. Heed no attention to the time I dedicated to not
only host the servers at the ISP, but the expenses on my behalf to maintain
them even against some of the most demanding of jobs, like working for the
National Center for Missing & Exploited Children. Please don't worry about
_me_, and the valuable time it took me find a representative to formally
reply on my behalf as professionally as possible (I have autism, my response
would have been incoherent if not for the professional help). Worry about
the users that will be eventually be banned because their thoughts offended
someone they do not know. For them alone will judge how a distro is seen.
My only hope, if possible, would be if lemma could contact me
instead, and
asked why the domain exists in the first place, instead of demand that it be
removed from a list of alternative mirrors she could have gotten the same
software from. Plenty of other mirrors could be _offensive_ to anyone else,
but mines had to be the one to offend someone the most.
So with that hope in mind, I ask one favor, even if my domain should get
Could you keep a list of alternative domains not deemed safe for work, but
still mirrors for Arch?
Imagine if others were to host Arch, let's say on an OpenNic domain, or an
onion address, would those get deemed Not Safe Work too?
Maybe I'll register CIAloves2.divideandconqu.er to make it more palatable.
Have a pleasurable understanding,
Alucard
I for one would download all my shit from cute loli mirror.
Triggered feminists have no place on the free internet, let them go
back to their censored safe spaces.
Thanks for your attention.
Philip Stark
2017-07-25 06:53:55 UTC
Permalink
Hi Midov, Alucard,
Post by Midov
Post by Alucard
Dear Florian Pritz,
<snip>
Post by Midov
Post by Alucard
What does it take to remove all forms of free speech, before it doesn't
matter to anyone at all?
This is not about free speech.

As far as I understand, you are free to host Arch Linux material on your server under whatever domain you feel like. That is as far as free speech goes. The decision by the Arch Linux project (through Florian) was to stop listing your server, which would imply a certain affiliation. That is not about free speech, it’s a decision by a non-governmental entity. They have the right (legally and ethically, imho) to decide whom to affiliate with, irrelevant of the reason.

This is a move that was borne from a concern for the reputation of the project. You seem to value “teh lulz” high, which is your right. Florian valued the reputation of the project higher than your right to have a goofily named mirror on the official list. I agree. And I’m not sure why that is such a problem.

<snip>
Post by Midov
Post by Alucard
Could you keep a list of alternative domains not deemed safe for work, but
still mirrors for Arch?
Imagine if others were to host Arch, let's say on an OpenNic domain, or an
onion address, would those get deemed Not Safe Work too?
Maybe I'll register CIAloves2.divideandconqu.er to make it more palatable.
How edgy...
Post by Midov
I for one would download all my shit from cute loli mirror.
Triggered feminists have no place on the free internet, let them go
back to their censored safe spaces.
Thanks for your attention.
Then go on, add this mirror to your config. Nobody asks you or them not to use this domain.

This is not about feminism, free speech or safe spaces. This is about protecting the reputation of a project trying to project a certain amount of professionalism. And to be honest, I feel a little tired of these discussions trying to use free speech as a shield to waste everyone’s time just because they feel their little jokes deserve wide-spread attention.


TL;DR: A non-governmental project has every right to associate with whatever entities they want. Florian felt that loli.forsale is a domain that does not represent the professionalism they would like to portray. Thus it was removed.

I will answer replies, but I will no longer post about this topic to this list, as I feel it would be spam.

Cheers,
Philip Stark
Saren Arterius
2017-07-25 07:00:55 UTC
Permalink
Oh wow, did we just ban a mirror because of its joke domain? That's
10/10 professionalism indeed.
Post by Philip Stark
Hi Midov, Alucard,
Post by Midov
Post by Alucard
Dear Florian Pritz,
<snip>
Post by Midov
Post by Alucard
What does it take to remove all forms of free speech, before it doesn't
matter to anyone at all?
This is not about free speech.
As far as I understand, you are free to host Arch Linux material on your server under whatever domain you feel like. That is as far as free speech goes. The decision by the Arch Linux project (through Florian) was to stop listing your server, which would imply a certain affiliation. That is not about free speech, it’s a decision by a non-governmental entity. They have the right (legally and ethically, imho) to decide whom to affiliate with, irrelevant of the reason.
This is a move that was borne from a concern for the reputation of the project. You seem to value “teh lulz” high, which is your right. Florian valued the reputation of the project higher than your right to have a goofily named mirror on the official list. I agree. And I’m not sure why that is such a problem.
<snip>
Post by Midov
Post by Alucard
Could you keep a list of alternative domains not deemed safe for work, but
still mirrors for Arch?
Imagine if others were to host Arch, let's say on an OpenNic domain, or an
onion address, would those get deemed Not Safe Work too?
Maybe I'll register CIAloves2.divideandconqu.er to make it more palatable.
How edgy...
Post by Midov
I for one would download all my shit from cute loli mirror.
Triggered feminists have no place on the free internet, let them go
back to their censored safe spaces.
Thanks for your attention.
Then go on, add this mirror to your config. Nobody asks you or them not to use this domain.
This is not about feminism, free speech or safe spaces. This is about protecting the reputation of a project trying to project a certain amount of professionalism. And to be honest, I feel a little tired of these discussions trying to use free speech as a shield to waste everyone’s time just because they feel their little jokes deserve wide-spread attention.
TL;DR: A non-governmental project has every right to associate with whatever entities they want. Florian felt that loli.forsale is a domain that does not represent the professionalism they would like to portray. Thus it was removed.
I will answer replies, but I will no longer post about this topic to this list, as I feel it would be spam.
Cheers,
Philip Stark
Saren Arterius
2017-07-25 07:45:22 UTC
Permalink
Well, I didn't own the domain too, but do you think is it political
correctness all over the place?

We removed a domain from mirror list because somebody claimed it's
offensive. To justify it, we were protecting Arch Linux's reputation out
of professionalism.

Isn't it literally self censorship? What if somebody claimed wtako.net
offensive because of some cosmetic reasons? What will Florian do then?
Remove it from mirror list because it offended nobody but him?

This incident is nothing but the most stupid thing I have seen in Arch
community yet.

Saren
I didn’t make any decisions.
Also I didn’t say the domain was not a joke. I even smiled. I am personally not offended by it (even though I have to say, I checked the content of the domain with a small amount of trepidation. It’s the internet after all
)
All I said is that it is a perfectly valid decision to disaffiliate because it sounds either like a joke in bad taste (which it is, and that’s fine) or like something genuinely illegal. Corporate IT usually does not investigate for long, they just come gunning for you.
Also, it wasn’t banned, it was simply removed from the official mirror list. It can still host all the arch linux materials it wants. Nothing changed that respect.
Your answers are a little black and white, don’t you think? This is JUST about protecting reputation. And Florian seems to value the reputation of a more corporate and conservative crowd more than the one of the 4chan/reddit crowd (or wherever one makes jokes like that nowadays. I am a little out of touch.)
I am not officially affiliated with Arch Linux, btw. Just to make this clear.
Cheers,
Philip Stark
Agreed. This domain is definitely linked to supporting patriarchy,
pedophilia, human trafficking and slavery, and that's why this domain is
no joke and must be banned for hosting Arch linux repo, which is 10/10
understandable. I support all of your decisions. /s
Hi Saren,
Unfortunately the joke domain is lacking it’s “just-kidding" emoticon. We live in a world where appearances matter, as much as we all wish it wouldn’t. Many people not steeped in “lulz”-culture would simply not get the joke. And that is a problem, imho.
Cheers,
Philip Stark
Post by Saren Arterius
Oh wow, did we just ban a mirror because of its joke domain? That's
10/10 professionalism indeed.
Post by Philip Stark
Hi Midov, Alucard,
Post by Midov
Post by Alucard
Dear Florian Pritz,
<snip>
Post by Midov
Post by Alucard
What does it take to remove all forms of free speech, before it doesn't
matter to anyone at all?
This is not about free speech.
As far as I understand, you are free to host Arch Linux material on your server under whatever domain you feel like. That is as far as free speech goes. The decision by the Arch Linux project (through Florian) was to stop listing your server, which would imply a certain affiliation. That is not about free speech, it’s a decision by a non-governmental entity. They have the right (legally and ethically, imho) to decide whom to affiliate with, irrelevant of the reason.
This is a move that was borne from a concern for the reputation of the project. You seem to value “teh lulz” high, which is your right. Florian valued the reputation of the project higher than your right to have a goofily named mirror on the official list. I agree. And I’m not sure why that is such a problem.
<snip>
Post by Midov
Post by Alucard
Could you keep a list of alternative domains not deemed safe for work, but
still mirrors for Arch?
Imagine if others were to host Arch, let's say on an OpenNic domain, or an
onion address, would those get deemed Not Safe Work too?
Maybe I'll register CIAloves2.divideandconqu.er to make it more palatable.
How edgy...
Post by Midov
I for one would download all my shit from cute loli mirror.
Triggered feminists have no place on the free internet, let them go
back to their censored safe spaces.
Thanks for your attention.
Then go on, add this mirror to your config. Nobody asks you or them not to use this domain.
This is not about feminism, free speech or safe spaces. This is about protecting the reputation of a project trying to project a certain amount of professionalism. And to be honest, I feel a little tired of these discussions trying to use free speech as a shield to waste everyone’s time just because they feel their little jokes deserve wide-spread attention.
TL;DR: A non-governmental project has every right to associate with whatever entities they want. Florian felt that loli.forsale is a domain that does not represent the professionalism they would like to portray. Thus it was removed.
I will answer replies, but I will no longer post about this topic to this list, as I feel it would be spam.
Cheers,
Philip Stark
<0x0465A111.asc>
<0x0465A111.asc>
Ip, Ivan via arch-mirrors
2017-07-25 12:48:10 UTC
Permalink
It's been four hours and more here and on reddit, and honestly I don't
get the joke. It's just a gTLD with a short hostname, has a personal
website setup and an ArchLinux mirror. If one can provide service that
benefits others, then I cannot see the reason to remove that.

If it is a real offensive, then would the Arch officials list the
complaint like DMCA request? In that way, the matter is more
transparent and rational for people to evaluate the seriousness.

Yours faithfully,
Ivan Ip<***@lifeho.me>
Work: (+852) 5218-0135
PGP Fingerprint: DBF6 2ECF 37B6 A576 D8DA B759 1903 5262 2D55 348D
[Key ID 56D7BEF6 has been revoked on Apr 14, 2017 due to weak algorithm]
Post by Saren Arterius
Well, I didn't own the domain too, but do you think is it political
correctness all over the place?
We removed a domain from mirror list because somebody claimed it's
offensive. To justify it, we were protecting Arch Linux's reputation out
of professionalism.
Isn't it literally self censorship? What if somebody claimed wtako.net
offensive because of some cosmetic reasons? What will Florian do then?
Remove it from mirror list because it offended nobody but him?
This incident is nothing but the most stupid thing I have seen in Arch
community yet.
Saren
I didn’t make any decisions.
Also I didn’t say the domain was not a joke. I even smiled. I am personally not offended by it (even though I have to say, I checked the content of the domain with a small amount of trepidation. It’s the internet after all…)
All I said is that it is a perfectly valid decision to disaffiliate because it sounds either like a joke in bad taste (which it is, and that’s fine) or like something genuinely illegal. Corporate IT usually does not investigate for long, they just come gunning for you.
Also, it wasn’t banned, it was simply removed from the official mirror list. It can still host all the arch linux materials it wants. Nothing changed that respect.
Your answers are a little black and white, don’t you think? This is JUST about protecting reputation. And Florian seems to value the reputation of a more corporate and conservative crowd more than the one of the 4chan/reddit crowd (or wherever one makes jokes like that nowadays. I am a little out of touch.)
I am not officially affiliated with Arch Linux, btw. Just to make this clear.
Cheers,
Philip Stark
Agreed. This domain is definitely linked to supporting patriarchy,
pedophilia, human trafficking and slavery, and that's why this domain is
no joke and must be banned for hosting Arch linux repo, which is 10/10
understandable. I support all of your decisions. /s
Hi Saren,
Unfortunately the joke domain is lacking it’s “just-kidding" emoticon. We live in a world where appearances matter, as much as we all wish it wouldn’t. Many people not steeped in “lulz”-culture would simply not get the joke. And that is a problem, imho.
Cheers,
Philip Stark
Post by Saren Arterius
Oh wow, did we just ban a mirror because of its joke domain? That's
10/10 professionalism indeed.
Post by Philip Stark
Hi Midov, Alucard,
Post by Midov
Post by Alucard
Dear Florian Pritz,
<snip>
Post by Midov
Post by Alucard
What does it take to remove all forms of free speech, before it doesn't
matter to anyone at all?
This is not about free speech.
As far as I understand, you are free to host Arch Linux material on your server under whatever domain you feel like. That is as far as free speech goes. The decision by the Arch Linux project (through Florian) was to stop listing your server, which would imply a certain affiliation. That is not about free speech, it’s a decision by a non-governmental entity. They have the right (legally and ethically, imho) to decide whom to affiliate with, irrelevant of the reason.
This is a move that was borne from a concern for the reputation of the project. You seem to value “teh lulz” high, which is your right. Florian valued the reputation of the project higher than your right to have a goofily named mirror on the official list. I agree. And I’m not sure why that is such a problem.
<snip>
Post by Midov
Post by Alucard
Could you keep a list of alternative domains not deemed safe for work, but
still mirrors for Arch?
Imagine if others were to host Arch, let's say on an OpenNic domain, or an
onion address, would those get deemed Not Safe Work too?
Maybe I'll register CIAloves2.divideandconqu.er to make it more palatable.
How edgy...
Post by Midov
I for one would download all my shit from cute loli mirror.
Triggered feminists have no place on the free internet, let them go
back to their censored safe spaces.
Thanks for your attention.
Then go on, add this mirror to your config. Nobody asks you or them not to use this domain.
This is not about feminism, free speech or safe spaces. This is about protecting the reputation of a project trying to project a certain amount of professionalism. And to be honest, I feel a little tired of these discussions trying to use free speech as a shield to waste everyone’s time just because they feel their little jokes deserve wide-spread attention.
TL;DR: A non-governmental project has every right to associate with whatever entities they want. Florian felt that loli.forsale is a domain that does not represent the professionalism they would like to portray. Thus it was removed.
I will answer replies, but I will no longer post about this topic to this list, as I feel it would be spam.
Cheers,
Philip Stark
<0x0465A111.asc>
<0x0465A111.asc>
Ip, Ivan via arch-mirrors
2017-07-25 13:01:54 UTC
Permalink
Apologies for not investigating thru, that given the original
"mirror.cuntflap.me" was not accepted at
https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/51870, then why would loli.forsale is
being accepted in the end? Without discovering "the joke"? If this is
all a drama then why all the add and remove?

Moreover, it's a Tier 2 mirror only... I wonder archlinux mirror list
will ban .xxx tld as it tend to provide adult websites?

Yours faithfully,
Ivan Ip<***@lifeho.me>
Work: (+852) 5218-0135
PGP Fingerprint: DBF6 2ECF 37B6 A576 D8DA B759 1903 5262 2D55 348D
[Key ID 56D7BEF6 has been revoked on Apr 14, 2017 due to weak algorithm]
Post by Ip, Ivan via arch-mirrors
It's been four hours and more here and on reddit, and honestly I don't
get the joke. It's just a gTLD with a short hostname, has a personal
website setup and an ArchLinux mirror. If one can provide service that
benefits others, then I cannot see the reason to remove that.
If it is a real offensive, then would the Arch officials list the
complaint like DMCA request? In that way, the matter is more
transparent and rational for people to evaluate the seriousness.
Yours faithfully,
Work: (+852) 5218-0135
PGP Fingerprint: DBF6 2ECF 37B6 A576 D8DA B759 1903 5262 2D55 348D
[Key ID 56D7BEF6 has been revoked on Apr 14, 2017 due to weak algorithm]
Post by Saren Arterius
Well, I didn't own the domain too, but do you think is it political
correctness all over the place?
We removed a domain from mirror list because somebody claimed it's
offensive. To justify it, we were protecting Arch Linux's reputation out
of professionalism.
Isn't it literally self censorship? What if somebody claimed wtako.net
offensive because of some cosmetic reasons? What will Florian do then?
Remove it from mirror list because it offended nobody but him?
This incident is nothing but the most stupid thing I have seen in Arch
community yet.
Saren
I didn’t make any decisions.
Also I didn’t say the domain was not a joke. I even smiled. I am personally not offended by it (even though I have to say, I checked the content of the domain with a small amount of trepidation. It’s the internet after all…)
All I said is that it is a perfectly valid decision to disaffiliate because it sounds either like a joke in bad taste (which it is, and that’s fine) or like something genuinely illegal. Corporate IT usually does not investigate for long, they just come gunning for you.
Also, it wasn’t banned, it was simply removed from the official mirror list. It can still host all the arch linux materials it wants. Nothing changed that respect.
Your answers are a little black and white, don’t you think? This is JUST about protecting reputation. And Florian seems to value the reputation of a more corporate and conservative crowd more than the one of the 4chan/reddit crowd (or wherever one makes jokes like that nowadays. I am a little out of touch.)
I am not officially affiliated with Arch Linux, btw. Just to make this clear.
Cheers,
Philip Stark
Agreed. This domain is definitely linked to supporting patriarchy,
pedophilia, human trafficking and slavery, and that's why this domain is
no joke and must be banned for hosting Arch linux repo, which is 10/10
understandable. I support all of your decisions. /s
Hi Saren,
Unfortunately the joke domain is lacking it’s “just-kidding" emoticon. We live in a world where appearances matter, as much as we all wish it wouldn’t. Many people not steeped in “lulz”-culture would simply not get the joke. And that is a problem, imho.
Cheers,
Philip Stark
Post by Saren Arterius
Oh wow, did we just ban a mirror because of its joke domain? That's
10/10 professionalism indeed.
Post by Philip Stark
Hi Midov, Alucard,
Post by Midov
Post by Alucard
Dear Florian Pritz,
<snip>
Post by Midov
Post by Alucard
What does it take to remove all forms of free speech, before it doesn't
matter to anyone at all?
This is not about free speech.
As far as I understand, you are free to host Arch Linux material on your server under whatever domain you feel like. That is as far as free speech goes. The decision by the Arch Linux project (through Florian) was to stop listing your server, which would imply a certain affiliation. That is not about free speech, it’s a decision by a non-governmental entity. They have the right (legally and ethically, imho) to decide whom to affiliate with, irrelevant of the reason.
This is a move that was borne from a concern for the reputation of the project. You seem to value “teh lulz” high, which is your right. Florian valued the reputation of the project higher than your right to have a goofily named mirror on the official list. I agree. And I’m not sure why that is such a problem.
<snip>
Post by Midov
Post by Alucard
Could you keep a list of alternative domains not deemed safe for work, but
still mirrors for Arch?
Imagine if others were to host Arch, let's say on an OpenNic domain, or an
onion address, would those get deemed Not Safe Work too?
Maybe I'll register CIAloves2.divideandconqu.er to make it more palatable.
How edgy...
Post by Midov
I for one would download all my shit from cute loli mirror.
Triggered feminists have no place on the free internet, let them go
back to their censored safe spaces.
Thanks for your attention.
Then go on, add this mirror to your config. Nobody asks you or them not to use this domain.
This is not about feminism, free speech or safe spaces. This is about protecting the reputation of a project trying to project a certain amount of professionalism. And to be honest, I feel a little tired of these discussions trying to use free speech as a shield to waste everyone’s time just because they feel their little jokes deserve wide-spread attention.
TL;DR: A non-governmental project has every right to associate with whatever entities they want. Florian felt that loli.forsale is a domain that does not represent the professionalism they would like to portray. Thus it was removed.
I will answer replies, but I will no longer post about this topic to this list, as I feel it would be spam.
Cheers,
Philip Stark
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<0x0465A111.asc>
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